Sunday, January 30, 2005

Out of Curiousity...

Do you believe in love (or like) at first (or second) sight?
Do you think that people are being too picky in waiting to be swept off their feet and that love is something that is built?
Why?
Inerestin' discussion...just shows that if you argue with someone very close to you, it doesn't harm a relationship, B"H!!! On to chavrusa-ing!

17 comments:

SaraQ said...

You know what your mother believes :)

defen said...

You really should define what you mean by love. Your possible equation of love and like in the first sentence already creates ambiguity. There are people whom I like, but I suspect I don't love. And interestingly enough, a lot of the people I love, I don't always like.

EN said...

You have asked a deep question. My opinion on the subject is that true love, being defined as wanting to give all you can to someone, and sight being understood as meeting a person once or twice (not only looks,)is that you can have an affinity for someone based on first impressions but a true relationship must be built by growing together and each one contributing to working towards mutual love and understanding. Although it is true that some people are picky in some aspects of choosing a mate, I think it is based on imaturity, and it is something to be worked on. However, no one should be forced to choose something they do not want and it is important to deliberate carefully before chosing your everlasting love.

Stx said...

Okay, so there are a number of ways to interpret this question:

1) Do you believe that some people experience love at first sight?
2) Do you believe that some people experience a level of attraction at first sight?
3) Do you believe that all people experience love at first sight?
4) Do you believe that all people experience a level of attraction at first sight?

[I'm not giving my own answer yet, as requested, but take a look at Michtav M'Eliahu, Kuntrus HaChesed, B'Ahavas Ish V'Isha. That'll give you some kind of idea of my opinion. Have fun hashing it out; I'll b'n join in later!]

defen said...

There are no Michtav M'Eliyahus in my college library, so excuse me for not answering in depth. My "gut" response to your four questions - I believe that #2 is correct. And as for #3 and #4 - it's generally best to stay away from absolute generalizations. ;)
As for #1, my feelings on the issue are similar to en's, although the second half of his post is already something I don't feel qualified to discuss.

Stx said...

Hey TRW--Which question is right? Like defen, my gut reaction would be that you mean the second one. Unlike defen, I talked to you, and thought you meant the fourth. Which is the correct question?

Just wanna make sure we're debating the correct topic...

leati said...

According to R' Frand, there's no such thing as love before marriage. I'm inclined to disagree, however education has taught me that 'emunas chachamim' comes beofre my own opinion, which will, therefore, remain unexpressed.

TRW said...

Ok, I'll stay away from generallizations. I meant #4, as Stx said, but let's say "a very large majority" instead of "all."
Leati, that's why I put the question up! Cause of R' Frand's shiur (and I was in a different country when it was given, but I still had a debate about it soon after...).
Lots of people say that if there's nothing wrong, you should give it a third date, a tenth date...but what if there's no attraction? Should you marry someone because "there's nothing wrong with him" rather than because you are attracted to him, on the basis that you'll learn to love (whatever that means) each other?

G Green said...

Great question. There has to be some kind of attraction. At least something at the beginning, and it needs to develop with time. That was one of the reasons I broke off a long running shidduch streak. You cant live your life just with your brain, if that were the case there would be no shidduch dates at all – if its right on paper, just get married. People have emotions - you need both to take you in the right direction. It obviously depends on the individual though. Rarely will a person be swept off their feet, but people are generally too picky. You cant continue dating on the long term because of a lack of anything negative, there needs to be something positive - although it may take a while to realize it. True love can only develop over time; a lifetime of experiences, not over a few dates.

defen said...

Building upon what I said earlier about not liking some of the people I love, I believe it is important to like (as in, you enjoy their company, feel that you "get along," "click," or however you prefer to word it) someone with whom you are planning to have such an important relationship.
If you don't like the person you marry, what will happen after the first fight? Your brain will say - oops, made a mistake there - and your heart will have nothing to add.

Eli7 said...

#1, I think you MUST be attracted to the person you marry - just because on paper he's great or even because you have fun with him, does not mean you should marry him.
#2, But I think the real question is when that love/attraction needs to develop. Does it need to happen at first or second sight? I think not. I am inclined to say it's the kind of thing that does develop. (Think about your good friends, do you see them as pretty/ugly/whatever? no, you see them as your friends, but even that is something that takes time to develop.)
#3, so then the question is how long should you wait for it to develop? and i don't know the answer to this (maybe it's the kinda thing only experience will tell?), but i do think that there is a point (4 or 5 dates maybe) at which point if there is no attraction, it's not going to develop.

Stx said...

I didn't pay her to say that.

TRW said...

That's so funny! Cause I thought she was agreeing with me! (You said 7/8 dates...) And attraction IS necessary...ptttttttttt

Stx said...

I was more focusing on #2. If the number's the problem, fine, I have no clue what I'm talking about. It's the concept that I feel strongly about. You can't expect attraction right away, and the *oh, wow, he's amazing! incredible! unique beyond words!* feeling doesn't NECESSARILY have to happen for everyone. Ever. There's a more mature love, a love that grows through time. Attraction is necessary--of course!--but not right away, and not the "crush" type neccesarily, in my opinion.

Jockey said...

I don't think love in the exciting crush variety is necessary for marriage. But you should be comfortable with someone, and sometimes even if there's nothing wrong on paper, and nothing you can put your finger on, you just don't like each other.

G Green said...

I think people often get caught up on numbers; the number of dates, the number of months difference between them, etc. I don't think it is the right approach to get anywhere.

Stx said...

Agreed, and the numbers obviously differ from person to person, couple to couple. But at the same time, if a girl says, "Help! I'm on my eighteenth date with this guy, and we still don't find each other attractive--Should I wait longer?", it couldn't hurt to have a general range to make you able to trust your instincts.

I know, I know, in theory you should just trust them. But theories don't always work, and some people need more of a concrete support. 'Sall.